QMJHL Basically Eliminating Fighting

[mr.black]

What da eff?

[FightingIsGood]

A game misconduct for instigating a fight? You have GOT to be kidding me??? So basically now, if you are an agitator or a dirty player in the Q, you now have free reign to do whatever the hell you want because nobody will be allowed to make you pay for the sh*t you pull. I don't even need to go into how absolutely absurd a 5-game suspension for a goalie fight is.

Gary Bettman must be ready to cream his panties...

[Humpzilla]

The goalie fight suspension is truly absurd. No other way to put it.

For all the rules that have come in the past, this is the most ridiculous.

[fansince65]

This was in the sport's news this morning :

Their will be tougher sanctions on brawling, but no outright ban on fighting in the QMJHL this season ..

I guess they have seen the light !!!!

[itsJ.Millertime]

Originally Posted by fansince65

This was in the sport's news this morning :

Their will be tougher sanctions on brawling, but no outright ban on fighting in the QMJHL this season ..

I guess they have seen the light !!!!

I doubt it, if you think the pantywaists are going to stop now you are nuts. They just won another major victory over the lovers of tough hockey, they've eliminated the bench brawls, now they have all but eliminated the line brawl and the goalie fight so take a guess at what they will aim for next.
The one on one fight is next people. Dont forget about the "game misconduct for instigating a fight" as well. What do you think this is going to do to guys who want to drop the gloves? It is going to make them very, very leary of doing such. Also no coach is going to send his lone enfocer or toughguy out there early in games to change momentum with a fight and take the chance he gets goaded into dropping the gloves just to get him out of the game. This is terrble news if you like fights no matter how you look at it and will most likely result in a huge drop in fights in the Q.

Where have all the good commisioners gone? Remember when the heads of the sport actually took concern about what fans want to see? Where have all those guys gone?

[fansince65]

Originally Posted by itsJ.Millertime

I doubt it, if you think the pantywaists are going to stop now you are nuts. They just won another major victory over the lovers of tough hockey, they've eliminated the bench brawls, now they have all but eliminated the line brawl and the goalie fight so take a guess at what they will aim for next.
The one on one fight is next people. Dont forget about the "game misconduct for instigating a fight" as well. What do you think this is going to do to guys who want to drop the gloves? It is going to make them very, very leary of doing such. Also no coach is going to send his lone enfocer or toughguy out there early in games to change momentum with a fight and take the chance he gets goaded into dropping the gloves just to get him out of the game. This is terrble news if you like fights no matter how you look at it and will most likely result in a huge drop in fights in the Q.

Where have all the good commisioners gone? Remember when the heads of the sport actually took concern about what fans want to see? Where have all those guys gone?

Ya ,you are right this is just the begining of the end , they will eventuly ban fighting all together , and lose millions of fans in the process , they will eliminate hitting next ....

[BROKEN*ORBITAL]

Fighting, Not Brawling, Will Fly In The QMJHL

A committee examining hockey violence following a melee during the playoffs in the spring did not include an automatic ejection for fighting among the 31 recommendations in a report submitted to the league's board of governors yesterday in Victoriaville, Que.

"There was a consensus not to punish through ejection players who voluntarily get into a fight," said Jacques Letellier, co-president of the committee along with former national women's team coach Daniele Sauvageau. "There were those for and against it.


"We opted to strengthen the penalties without adopting an automatic ejection."

[Ciccarelli]

Originally Posted by itsJ.Millertime

Nobody here is saying this is earth shattering news like global warming, price gouging by oil companies or the Iraq war but to fans of hockey fights yes this is indeed terrible news and in effect if junior leagues did ban fighting it would be the "end of the world" in a hockey fighting sense because it would lead to a huge drop in fights in all leagues.

I really try to understand you Ciccarelli, you have hockey knowledge thats for sure, you seem to like fights and rough play but you try to start so many arguments on this site for what reason? If stating internet wars is your idea of a good time then its you sir that needs to get a life.

That's mainly what I meant, there are lot of more serious problems around then some new rules against fighting in the QMJHL.
Besides that I don't think it will change much from the situation we have already now, also if later or sooner they are handing out game misconducts for fighters it won't change much IMO. Most enforcers (I don't know how it is in the QMJHL) are playing between 20 sec. and 5 mins a game and a lot of times after a fight they are mostly sitting on the bench anyway. So sitting on the bench for nothing or getting ejected from the game doesn't change much IMO. If they would have implemented this rules 20 years ago, yeah they would have made a difference and changed a lot but right now we already have a situation where this rules are not meaningfull and won't change anything IMO. We'll see less line brawls, we had no line brawl in the NHL last season (I'm not sure), I don't know how many line brawls we had in the QMJHL, and they are practically eliminating the goalie fight...I can't remember the last goalie fight in the NHL and I doubt there have been many in the junior leagues either.
I'm never starting internet wars, I'm posting on an internet forum to discuss, that's what forums are here for. The easiest way to start a discussion is to post a provocative statement.

[itsJ.Millertime]

Originally Posted by Ciccarelli

That's mainly what I meant, there are lot of more serious problems around then some new rules against fighting in the QMJHL.
Besides that I don't think it will change much from the situation we have already now, also if later or sooner they are handing out game misconducts for fighters it won't change much IMO. Most enforcers (I don't know how it is in the QMJHL) are playing between 20 sec. and 5 mins a game and a lot of times after a fight they are mostly sitting on the bench anyway. So sitting on the bench for nothing or getting ejected from the game doesn't change much IMO. If they would have implemented this rules 20 years ago, yeah they would have made a difference and changed a lot but right now we already have a situation where this rules are not meaningfull and won't change anything IMO. We'll see less line brawls, we had no line brawl in the NHL last season (I'm not sure), I don't know how many line brawls we had in the QMJHL, and they are practically eliminating the goalie fight...I can't remember the last goalie fight in the NHL and I doubt there have been many in the junior leagues either.
I'm never starting internet wars, I'm posting on an internet forum to discuss, that's what forums are here for. The easiest way to start a discussion is to post a provocative statement.

You are correct about the lack of line brawls and goalie fights in the "new" nhl. To my knowledge there were none of either but I could have missed something, its not like I follow the league much anymore.
You are also right that toughguys/enforcers dont play much (I think they do play a bit more in juniors though) but I think it will change things because think of a coach who only has one enforcer/toughguy dressed as most do today. Is he going to risk playing a whole game without a toughguy sitting on the bench after his lone warrior is kicked out in the first period? I would think not, instead I could see him putting in strict "no fight" orders early on to save him for later if needed and if that latter never happens then so be it, save it for next game.

Also lets look at the "heat of the game" type of fight. Lets say a player with some skill who also likes to play a tough game gets drilled and wants to fight, will he and risk getting a instigator to get revenge or will he say "I better wait and not risk getting kicked out"? I would think the later, either way you look at it I dont see how anyone can be happy with this ruling. Yes it does not totaly eliminate fighting but it comes pretty damn close if you ask me.


Fansince65-looks like you are finally catching on. I really dont think any of these leagues care how many fans they lose. Just look at the dwindling attendance across every league, US stadium and the pitifull tv ratings for proof of that. Outside of the canadian teams in the "new" nhl and a handfull of other teams all leagues and teams are struggling mightly to attract fans to this new euro style game.

[FightingIsGood]

There was a goalie fight and a line brawl last year - DiPietro vs. Montoya from the preseason, and Vancouver vs. San Jose from the preseason and Vancouver vs. Edmonton in February had line brawls. But it's still nowhere near what it used to be.

[fansince65]

Originally Posted by itsJ.Millertime

You are correct about the lack of line brawls and goalie fights in the "new" nhl. To my knowledge there were none of either but I could have missed something, its not like I follow the league much anymore.
You are also right that toughguys/enforcers dont play much (I think they do play a bit more in juniors though) but I think it will change things because think of a coach who only has one enforcer/toughguy dressed as most do today. Is he going to risk playing a whole game without a toughguy sitting on the bench after his lone warrior is kicked out in the first period? I would think not, instead I could see him putting in strict "no fight" orders early on to save him for later if needed and if that latter never happens then so be it, save it for next game.

Also lets look at the "heat of the game" type of fight. Lets say a player with some skill who also likes to play a tough game gets drilled and wants to fight, will he and risk getting a instigator to get revenge or will he say "I better wait and not risk getting kicked out"? I would think the later, either way you look at it I dont see how anyone can be happy with this ruling. Yes it does not totaly eliminate fighting but it comes pretty damn close if you ask me.


Fansince65-looks like you are finally catching on. I really dont think any of these leagues care how many fans they lose. Just look at the dwindling attendance across every league, US stadium and the pitifull tv ratings for proof of that. Outside of the canadian teams in the "new" nhl and a handfull of other teams all leagues and teams are struggling mightly to attract fans to this new euro style game.

I dont know about the attendance in the NHL/AHL but i can tell you what it is like in my home vicinity .
Before the lockout our JR"B"team was drawing 150/250 fans every night and lost money every year , in fact Joe Thornton paid off their debt one year to prevent them from going bankrupt ( he played for the team) they now draw every night 600/1000 fans to every game and fill the house for the playoff's every game ..
The JR"A" team that I have season tickets for drew 1500 fans as a solid base in a rink that held 5500 fans , they now have a new 9100 seat arena that is sold out for the 08/09 season before they even drop the puck !!

The lockout gave PPL a chance to re-discover junior hockey at all levels , I cant wait for Bettman to F#ck up again That season was the best I have ever witnessed in all the years I have watched junior hockey ...

[Rob666]

Originally Posted by Ciccarelli

Yeah, because there are no more important things in the world then some hockey fights in minor leagues.

Well checkout this site: http://hockeyfights.com/forums

It's important because if player in the QMJHL never get the chance to develope their fighting skills and are discouraged in years to come that will come to the NHL and fights will be far and few between. Leading to a increasingly dirty game.

[Ciccarelli]

Originally Posted by itsJ.Millertime

You are correct about the lack of line brawls and goalie fights in the "new" nhl. To my knowledge there were none of either but I could have missed something, its not like I follow the league much anymore.
You are also right that toughguys/enforcers dont play much (I think they do play a bit more in juniors though) but I think it will change things because think of a coach who only has one enforcer/toughguy dressed as most do today. Is he going to risk playing a whole game without a toughguy sitting on the bench after his lone warrior is kicked out in the first period? I would think not, instead I could see him putting in strict "no fight" orders early on to save him for later if needed and if that latter never happens then so be it, save it for next game.

Also lets look at the "heat of the game" type of fight. Lets say a player with some skill who also likes to play a tough game gets drilled and wants to fight, will he and risk getting a instigator to get revenge or will he say "I better wait and not risk getting kicked out"? I would think the later, either way you look at it I dont see how anyone can be happy with this ruling. Yes it does not totaly eliminate fighting but it comes pretty damn close if you ask me.

I guess most coaches do already have a strict no fight order for their enforcers until he tells them to go out and fight. It could happen the way you described it that the coach is going to save his fighter for later or the next game, but it could also happen that with a possible game misconduct we don't see any staged fights anymore. I know some of you guys like them, I indeed don't like the staged fights without any reason behind. That fights are the once the fighting opponents are always taking as examples why fighting is useless, and with this new rules that kind of fights could be eliminated.

I admit I didn't think of the "heat of the game" called fight. That would obviousley be a problem if they really implement a game misconduct for a fight it could mean the end of every powerforward that occasionally fights. Until now they didn't implement that rule and I don't think it will happen in the near future either and if so they could still whistle it by double standards like they are already doing it now. So basically we could see an enforcer being ejected from a game and a star player not.

They didn't implement a game misconduct so far and they won't in the near future, so basically this rules will lead to more dirty play...I always liked dirty play because dirty play leads to fights.

[itsJ.Millertime]

Originally Posted by fansince65

I dont know about the attendance in the NHL/AHL but i can tell you what it is like in my home vicinity .
Before the lockout our JR"B"team was drawing 150/250 fans every night and lost money every year , in fact Joe Thornton paid off their debt one year to prevent them from going bankrupt ( he played for the team) they now draw every night 600/1000 fans to every game and fill the house for the playoff's every game ..
The JR"A" team that I have season tickets for drew 1500 fans as a solid base in a rink that held 5500 fans , they now have a new 9100 seat arena that is sold out for the 08/09 season before they even drop the puck !!

The lockout gave PPL a chance to re-discover junior hockey at all levels , I cant wait for Bettman to F#ck up again That season was the best I have ever witnessed in all the years I have watched junior hockey ...

Its really strange that you say this becuase I have been collecting fight videos since the 80's and I got a "best of" from the WHL 06-07 season and was shocked by how many empty seats there are at most of the games on the video, I have never seen it like that. You know attendance in the "new" nhl is pitifull because you watch the games and can see that for yourself. As far as the ahl goes I have been attending games for over 20 years and although attendance was never great it is beyond sad at this point with most games I attend or order on B2 barely drawing 2,000 fans. My guess is that with the "new" nhl and other pro leagues being so bad that your local junior team is a outlet for fans who crave to see hockey played with a bit of intensity and emotion, sadly if these new rules go through that may be eliminated this season.
I totaly backup your claim of the lockout being the "best season" though. I went to a ton of AHL games that year and the action was AWESOME!! The stadiums were packed with loud, excited fans and the play on the ice was intense, physical and packed with emotion. It was the best year in a long, long time but sadly that all ended with the new rules and soft play. Now you can hear a pin drop at most games and you can have entire rows to yourself many nights.

I guess most coaches do already have a strict no fight order for their enforcers until he tells them to go out and fight. It could happen the way you described it that the coach is going to save his fighter for later or the next game, but it could also happen that with a possible game misconduct we don't see any staged fights anymore. I know some of you guys like them, I indeed don't like the staged fights without any reason behind. That fights are the once the fighting opponents are always taking as examples why fighting is useless, and with this new rules that kind of fights could be eliminated.

I admit I didn't think of the "heat of the game" called fight. That would obviousley be a problem if they really implement a game misconduct for a fight it could mean the end of every powerforward that occasionally fights. Until now they didn't implement that rule and I don't think it will happen in the near future either and if so they could still whistle it by double standards like they are already doing it now. So basically we could see an enforcer being ejected from a game and a star player not.

They didn't implement a game misconduct so far and they won't in the near future, so basically this rules will lead to more dirty play...I always liked dirty play because dirty play leads to fights.
Yesterday 01:33 AM

Ciccarelli,

Maybe you missed the post where Catatonic Moose said that there will be a automatic game miscounduct attached to any instigator penalty this year? I am taking CMs word on this as he seems to be the resident expert on junior hockey but if that is true I dont see how you cant agree that this will cause a major drop in fights.

You claim to dislike "staged fights" but with this rule all we will have is "staged fights". No player, enforcer, toughguy or otherwise is going to want to risk his opponent goading him into dropping the gloves first only to see him turn around and get him thrown out of the game for instigation or even if they do fight the ref could rule a instigator at any time if he wants to. Now all you will see is two guys line up and mutualy agree to fight and even then guys will be leary. Just look how big a drop there was when the bettyman package came into effect, there was a near 50% drop almost overnight and that is nowhere near as bad as this.

No matter how you look at it a one and done for instigating will amount to a near elimination of fighting as we know it.

A bit off subject here but "staged fights" are not always what they seem to be. As a longtime fan such as yourself and someone who may have played the game or been in a fight or two do you not think that a so called "staged" fight could be some carryover from seasons long forgotten by the average fan or maybe just two guys with pride who want to prove themselves to themselves as much as anything else. Staged or no the fights are real and they are really exciting. I see no problem with any fight staged or not, its the most exciting part of the sport.

[Ciccarelli]

No I did read his post, and I'm aware of the automatic game misconduct if you instigate a fight. So basically my guess is we'll see the refs not handling out instigator penalties for "star" players who fight (unless he jumps his opponent), and enforcers or known "problem" players will get the instigator.
The officials definitely have more power to completely control the game and they now have a good control of every game and fighter to not let get out of control any game. So my guess is this rules will especially avoid any kind of brawls and games with more then 1-2 fights.

I misunderstood the meaning of staged fights maybe, for me a staged fight is a fight without a reason, just a fight that happens because two enforcers or fighters agree to test each other out because they are not going to see more ice-time anyway. If there is a reason behind and both guys agree to go I have no problem with it. My guess is most enforcers/fighters now will agree to go before they drop the gloves and as long as the refs are not complete idiots they'll avoid to handle out instigating penalties.
I think you are wrong with the 50% drop of fighting overnights just because the NHL implemented the new rules. We had less fights the first season after the lockout but we had more fight again last season. We have less fights in general compared to the early 90's mid 90's but not really much less then before the last lockout.