Phoenix Coyotes Management/Sale Thread

[Ciccarelli]

Originally Posted by HordiBrusk29

It will, over time. In the past they weren't profitable because of the venue they played in. Not because of the team, as they were pretty entertaining for the first four or five years in Phoenix. But when you can't sell a large portion of tickets due to viewing restrictions that hurts come playoff time. Having more success and ultimately making the playoffs, the people will show up. Most people fail to realize that Phoenix and the state of Arizona is full of snowbirds. Most people I knew living there came from up north and live there because of the warm weather. There is a market for hockey there. No it isn't as great as Hamilton or other Canadian market teams but at the end of the day the NHL doesn't want to bring another team to Canada contrary to what the fans want.

The Coyotes are playing in Phoenix for 13 years now. 13 years is a long time, how long does it take to make them profitable? 20 years? It's not like the Coyotes are relatively new in Phoenix, they have been there for the last decade and still not many people care or go to the games. Ok there have been up and downs also in the numbers of attendance but overall I would say 13-15 years of non-profitable seasons should be enough to realize that it doesn't work.
As you said they are playing in a new arena now, with better views etc., maybe now it will get more profitable because they sell more tickets, and the new arena is the only thing that saved them from moving.
I know that there is a lot of people from the north a lot of "snowbirds" how you call them, but the biggest problem from that "fanbase" is that they often remain fans of their teams up north. They are still fans of the Leafs, Canucks, Flames, Oilers, they just moved south but they prefer watching their team on TV then the Coyotes in the arena, they go to the Coyotes game only when a canadian team visits and for the rest of the season they tend to don't care. It's like that also in Florida.

[Philly Reign]

Originally Posted by Ciccarelli

The Coyotes are playing in Phoenix for 13 years now. 13 years is a long time, how long does it take to make them profitable? 20 years? It's not like the Coyotes are relatively new in Phoenix, they have been there for the last decade and still not many people care or go to the games. Ok there have been up and downs also in the numbers of attendance but overall I would say 13-15 years of non-profitable seasons should be enough to realize that it doesn't work.

Ya can't argue with that at all. Doesn't take George Bush to realize this business is going down the tubes.

[Ciccarelli]

Besides that I read the posts above about the NHL wanting the game to grow, so they prefer having a team somewhere where they can find new fans, risking also to loose money for years as long as the game grows.

I understand that, I don't agree with the "growing-the-game-plan", but I ask myself what would help the game more to grow...having non-profitable franchises in southern cities, that bring up bad media and stories about how unsuccessfull they are. Having franchises that struggle financially and destroy the image of a healthy successfull league?

Or wouldn't it be a better option to have national-wide tv contracts? Wouldn't it be better to have more games on free-tv on national sports channels instead of having games shown only on pay-tv on relatively unknown and small local sport channels? Wouldn't it be a better help to grow the game?

[Word]

Originally Posted by Ciccarelli

Besides that I read the posts above about the NHL wanting the game to grow, so they prefer having a team somewhere where they can find new fans, risking also to loose money for years as long as the game grows.

A decision left to the owners and league...

Originally Posted by Ciccarelli

I understand that, I don't agree with the "growing-the-game-plan", but I ask myself what would help the game more to grow...having non-profitable franchises in southern cities, that bring up bad media and stories about how unsuccessfull they are. Having franchises that struggle financially and destroy the image of a healthy successfull league?

Do you really think anyone out there, except for fans of Balsillie, care?

Does the new fan in PHX care if the team is having financial difficulties? No. If the team is there, they will go.

Originally Posted by Ciccarelli

Or wouldn't it be a better option to have national-wide tv contracts? Wouldn't it be better to have more games on free-tv on national sports channels instead of having games shown only on pay-tv on relatively unknown and small local sport channels? Wouldn't it be a better help to grow the game?

And how are you going to get those tv contracts without the popularity growing?

The popularity doesn't grow if you downsize...eliminate the new fans...remove the growth potential.

[canuck2]

Originally Posted by Ciccarelli

The Coyotes are playing in Phoenix for 13 years now. 13 years is a long time, how long does it take to make them profitable? 20 years? It's not like the Coyotes are relatively new in Phoenix, they have been there for the last decade and still not many people care or go to the games. Ok there have been up and downs also in the numbers of attendance but overall I would say 13-15 years of non-profitable seasons should be enough to realize that it doesn't work.
As you said they are playing in a new arena now, with better views etc., maybe now it will get more profitable because they sell more tickets, and the new arena is the only thing that saved them from moving.
I know that there is a lot of people from the north a lot of "snowbirds" how you call them, but the biggest problem from that "fanbase" is that they often remain fans of their teams up north. They are still fans of the Leafs, Canucks, Flames, Oilers, they just moved south but they prefer watching their team on TV then the Coyotes in the arena, they go to the Coyotes game only when a canadian team visits and for the rest of the season they tend to don't care. It's like that also in Florida.

Well they played in the site obstructed arena downtown for a long time. The irony is they drew better there. They were not giving away tickets when they played downtown. I went to a ton of games downtown and the vibe was great. I get tickets for the games in Glendale for about 20 dollars lower level. 10 years ago I was paying double that at the dowtown rink. What does that tell you?
Now they have a nice shiny new arena. State of the art. But they placed it on the wrong side of the town, a long way away from the fans they had in Scottsdale. A lot of the doctors who I work with gave up their tickets when they moved to Glendale. "too long of a drive they said". Some of these guys were Canadian, they didnt care that much about seeing the Canadian teams.

When Canadian teams visit we actually get a lot of out of town Canadians travel to see them play. It's good revenue but is nowhere near enough.

The franchise blew it big time when they made the rash decision to move to Glendale. In Scottsdale this team would have flourished, I'm convinced of that.

And I agree with the arguement of creating negative media not being worth trying to "grow" the game where the interest is lukewarm. Right now the Coyotes franchise is a black mark on the NHL. It's so ironic considering the reasons they moved from Winnipeg.

[canuck2]

Originally Posted by ScottRasner

Coming from a nursing assistant, doesnt mean much. Whats funny is ASU is one of the top ten schools to go to in the nation, pretty lousy education they offer there huh?

Ignorant is the only way to describe you, and I am glad I am not the only one that seems to think so. Again, move along.

Little education for you (again). The state of Arizona ranks near the bottom in overall education in the U.S. Your ramblings on here are proof of that.

ASU is the exception but it's higher education. You need to get there first. And a lot of out of towner's go there. My wife has her master's from there.

[Philly Reign]

Hahaha! Nobody in their right minds goes to ASU for its education. You go for the partying, the tanned tits, the dumb blondes, and the easy pussay!

[wellzy]

Aslong as bettman is still the "man" in the NHL we not see another team in Canada. He will not admitt that he was wrong on putting teams in bad locations.

[Word]

Originally Posted by wellzy

Aslong as bettman is still the "man" in the NHL we not see another team in Canada. He will not admitt that he was wrong on putting teams in bad locations.

Bettman represents the league owners.

Until the owners decide that expansion and growth aren't worth it, nothing will happen.

[Ciccarelli]

Originally Posted by Word

A decision left to the owners and league...


Do you really think anyone out there, except for fans of Balsillie, care?

Does the new fan in PHX care if the team is having financial difficulties? No. If the team is there, they will go.


And how are you going to get those tv contracts without the popularity growing?

The popularity doesn't grow if you downsize...eliminate the new fans...remove the growth potential.

I don't know, I can imagine that some fans don't get involved as fans with the team because they are not sure how long this team will stay. Why should I pay to watch a relatively new sport to me, if I hear constant news about a possible relocation, about financial troubles. I guess many new fans will think, with a team in financial troubles we'll never be good enough to win something, and maybe the team will be gone soon...so why should I get involved in being a hockey fan, a Coyotes fan?

Getting the TV-contracts is the major point why the NHL and owner plans about the growth hasn't worked out. They needed both things to make their plan work. Expansion to the south is ok but along with the new expansion teams the NHL needed a national wide TV contract, a TV contract that ensures that the sport is viewable for everybody also in the south.

[Gunslinger]

I agree. Fans, especially "new" ones tend to be a little cautious when it comes to spending their hard earned dollars on a team in a sport which they have recently gotten to know. With the poor economy and not knowing if the team is staying or not, how good they are going to be, etc, many fans will just stay home. The die-hards like ScottRasner will show but the newer fans may well stay away, further hampering the team from ever becoming viable in the desert.

[jkidd]

The question is whether Jerry Reinsdorf's US$148 million bid will still be on the table then.

"I think from time to time, (Reinsdorf has) become very frustrated with the process," Daly told reporters outside the courthouse. "He feels like he's being fought at every turn, and he's already invested a lot of money in this. At some point, we're concerned that he may just reach a decision that it's not worth all the time and money and effort when he's getting resisted as strongly as he is by Mr. Moyes and Mr. Balsillie."

Reinsdorf's lawyer declined to speak to reporters after the hearing.

Reinsdorf's frustration apparently grew when Moyes' lawyer, in court filings, revealed details of Reinsdorf's negotiations with the city of Glendale, Ariz., on a possible new lease for Jobing.com Arena.

Reinsdorf has asked for a special taxing district to be created near the arena that would pay the new owners as much as $23 million next year, according to documents obtained by The Arizona Republic. And if the team were still losing money after five years, Glendale would have to pay Reinsdorf $15 million for each year of losses or allow the team to be sold and moved without penalty, according to the newspaper.

There is no indication that Glendale officials have agreed to those financial incentives, although Glendale lawyers said in court documents last week that the city was "very close to a definitive agreement" that would include "strong economic essentials."

The Coyotes have never made a profit since moving from Winnipeg in 1996.

More....

[Philly Reign]

Originally Posted by jkidd

The Coyotes have never made a profit since moving from Winnipeg in 1996.

ABANDON SHIP!!!

[jkidd]

Doesn't that bid work the opposite of normal deals with cities/arena's?

If the team isn't profitable... the city pays the team? Isn't it normally the team pays the city to be in the arena?

[lakingsfan19]

Originally Posted by Purely_Purinton

Guess what? To grow the sport, you need to get kids and adults alike involved in playing the game. The general public doesn't like hockey why? Because they "can't follow the puck" or "don't understand the rules" but most importantly have never played the game. Hockey is a niche sport that to truly be appreciated you have to lace em up and try to do what these guys do, and being that Arizona is blazing hot all year round I can't imagine there being very many community rinks around as the cost to keep them running year round would be astronomical and impossible to turn a profit.

Bettmans darts at a map method of expanding the league and "growing the sport" was just that-completely hit or miss. He alienated proven hockey cities in favor of new ones, and only did he repay one (Minnesota) with a new team 8 years later. In fairness, some warm weather markets took off: Dallas, San Jose, Anaheim, LA and with the help of good teams, so did Carolina and Tampa. But for those success stories you have Phoenix, Nashville, Florida and Atlanta, who outside of being a passing phase or the rare playoff run, play to mostly empty arenas each night, and continuously providing their loyal fans with a subpar product only further sinks the organizations.

For the good of the league the Yotes should be relocated, they just don't make enough money to ice a competitive team, and their salary cuts this offseason have them looking even less talented and exciting than last year. Not a good way to draw fans to the jobing.com arena.

Well your wrong! There are lots of Ice rinks out here and lots of Kids playing hockey. It's not that people in PHX don't follow hockey, I think more do now than ever. I stand by the fact the moved their fu(king arena way too far out of the city. With gas prices high, no one wants to drive that far. Also a lot of hockey fans in AZ are from different places (just like most people that live in AZ) so they are fans of different teams. Add this to the arena being far away and they don't want to make the drive to watch their team. That loses money as well.

oh yeah and it's not blazing hot year around.