Rangers Acquire Jokinen, Prust From Calgary

[dipandmitts]

Originally Posted by rondo

my guess is calgary is loading up to try and get kovalachuk. If not i don't know if these guys are the answere the flames are looking for.

ditto

[Word]

Originally Posted by dipandmitts

ditto

Not so sure that Kovalchuck is going to be it though.

Do they make all these trades to have a rental player that they possibly won't be able to sign with Iggy and Kipper on the team? Will Calgary have the cap room, with a decreasing cap?

I am sure Calgary isn't done, but don't know if their next moves will be to bring in a top guy...

[Sam1410]

Originally Posted by Word

Not so sure that Kovalchuck is going to be it though.

Do they make all these trades to have a rental player that they possibly won't be able to sign with Iggy and Kipper on the team? Will Calgary have the cap room, with a decreasing cap?

I am sure Calgary isn't done, but don't know if their next moves will be to bring in a top guy...

If what the Kings guys are saying is true (that Waddell wants Johnson, Simmons, Frolov and a 1st) then the Flames don't have NEAR the assets to get a trade for Kovalchuk done.

If Phaneuf was still here, I'd say they might be able to swing a deal for Vinny, but now I think they are going to continue to be bit players and won't be able to pull off a blockbuster. Sad for Flames fans but true.

As for the Rags fans, and others, that are claiming that Prust is the real catch in this trade. Uh, no he isn't. I love fighting as much as the next guy, but you still have to score to win. Olli was a bust in Calgary, but that is because he isn't a great defensive centerman and that is what the Flames stress first.

Going back to the more wide-open East is going to help him immensely and you are going to be very happy with him IMO.

Prust is nice as a scrapper (MUCH improved this year) but he is a borderline 4th line player at best - whoever said he was good on the PP and the PK is smoking crack - he's never spent a minute on the PP or PK in his NHL career and this isn't junior fuking hockey. He will be a fan favorite because of his fighting, but he is a 5 minute a game guy and that is it. Enjoy, but lets not get crazy here. He is the worst player of those that changed hands (and Higgins and Kotalik blow).

[Word]

Originally Posted by Sam1410

If what the Kings guys are saying is true (that Waddell wants Johnson, Simmons, Frolov and a 1st) then the Flames don't have NEAR the assets to get a trade for Kovalchuk done.

Not the assets, and even if you trade a bunch of players to get him, you don't do it unless you can sign him. I don't think the Flames will have the cap room.

Originally Posted by Sam1410

If Phaneuf was still here, I'd say they might be able to swing a deal for Vinny, but now I think they are going to continue to be bit players and won't be able to pull off a blockbuster. Sad for Flames fans but true.

I thought about Vinny too, and I think you are correct.

Originally Posted by Sam1410

As for the Rags fans, and others, that are claiming that Prust is the real catch in this trade. Uh, no he isn't. I love fighting as much as the next guy, but you still have to score to win. Olli was a bust in Calgary, but that is because he isn't a great defensive centerman and that is what the Flames stress first.

Olli has been a bust for years now. Olli even admits to it. Doesn't matter if Calgary or Phoenix...it isn't happening for him anymore.

Prust, IMO, was key. Hard worker. Not a goal scorer, but recently the Rags need someone more than Voros or Avery to defend the team with Brash being MIA.

Originally Posted by Sam1410

Prust is nice as a scrapper (MUCH improved this year) but he is a borderline 4th line player at best - whoever said he was good on the PP and the PK is smoking crack - he's never spent a minute on the PP or PK in his NHL career and this isn't junior fuking hockey. He will be a fan favorite because of his fighting, but he is a 5 minute a game guy and that is it. Enjoy, but lets not get crazy here. He is the worst player of those that changed hands (and Higgins and Kotalik blow).

A fan favorite in Calgary. I don't think anyone in Calgary is sad to have Olli Joke-nen leave...but more than a few are sad to see Prust go.

If you look at it as 1 overpriced player laking talent (Joke-nen) canceling 1 overpriced player laccking (Kotalik), then it is Prust for Higgins. In this, Prust takes an edge IMO.

[Nystrom_23]

There must be a mandate that the Rangers get a goon in every single trade they make.

[canuckfan]

Good post, Sam.

I've been scratching my head over this trade since it was first proposed Sunday night. It makes little sense, and with Phaneuf now gone, I don't see how they could still be in the running for Kovalchuk, and match what the Kings or even the Bruins would be able to offer for a guy who will probably take off somewhere else on July 1 anyways.

I know the Flames are trying to win now - but these deals Sutter has pulled off recently smack of desperation, from a GM who knows his job may be on the line. I think these are trades that could really come back to hurt the Flames in the near future, especially if there's no Cup run this spring.

What makes anyone think Kotalik can perform better under Brent Sutter than he has with Tortorella? And Higgins has had two incredibly terrible years. Flames got worse, and softer, with this deal, imo.

[Cat Smasher]

Gaborik will be Joki's new best friend for sure, statistically.

3 straight 30+ goal seasons. (29 last year, could be 4)

21 goals, 21 assists for 42 points in 57 games on Phoenix, just last season.

When he took off with Florida, 4/5 seasons he had over 30 goals.

He's missed 14 games in 10 years.

Jokinen is no bust, just having an average season on this really weird Flames team.

[Sam1410]

Originally Posted by Word

Not the assets, and even if you trade a bunch of players to get him, you don't do it unless you can sign him. I don't think the Flames will have the cap room.



I thought about Vinny too, and I think you are correct.

Agreed, on both fronts.

Olli has been a bust for years now. Olli even admits to it. Doesn't matter if Calgary or Phoenix...it isn't happening for him anymore.

Prust, IMO, was key. Hard worker. Not a goal scorer, but recently the Rags need someone more than Voros or Avery to defend the team with Brash being MIA.

Come on, Prust works hard and has a big heart but he can't play hockey. If the Rags made this deal to have 15 more fights in the regular season then yes Prust is the key. If they made the deal on the off chance that they get a #1 centerman for Gabby, then obviously Olli is the key.

A fan favorite in Calgary. I don't think anyone in Calgary is sad to have Olli Joke-nen leave...but more than a few are sad to see Prust go.

If you look at it as 1 overpriced player laking talent (Joke-nen) canceling 1 overpriced player laccking (Kotalik), then it is Prust for Higgins. In this, Prust takes an edge IMO.

I disagree that Olli lacks talent. He's had 4 seasons with over 34 goals and even as bad as he was last year on a terrible Phoenix team he had 21 goals in 57 games, so he was on pace for 30+ goals again.

He was bad in Calgary because he is a shoot first centerman that was paired with a shoot first winger and it never clicked. A change of scenery might be exactly what he needs. As for being overpriced, yep he is, but he is only a half-year rental and costs you nothing next year. The Flames are on the hook for another $6 fuking million for Kotalik. BIG win Rags.

I don't see enough of Higgins to know what his issues are. He was a 20+ goal scorer for the Habs so Sutter must think a change will bring that back? I don't know.

Prust is a scrapper, but at 5 minutes a game he isn't going to really make your team that much better. The guys in the room will love him and the fans will too, but what is he going to give you in the playoffs? Nothing.

I AM sad to see him go because I love to see hockey fights, but to say he's the key player in this deal is insane IMO.

[nyrgoal]

Originally Posted by Nystrom_23

There must be a mandate that the Rangers get a goon in every single trade they make.

I posted the same thing in the rangers thread this morning. In every trade the rangers seem to get a fighter or agitator. Orr, Brash, Avery, Voros, Hollweg, Carcillo, Prust just to name a few recents in the past years. Sather loves the goons or edgy guys, its just getting the coaches to play them.

[Sam1410]

Originally Posted by canuckfan

Good post, Sam.

I've been scratching my head over this trade since it was first proposed Sunday night. It makes little sense, and with Phaneuf now gone, I don't see how they could still be in the running for Kovalchuk, and match what the Kings or even the Bruins would be able to offer for a guy who will probably take off somewhere else on July 1 anyways.

I know the Flames are trying to win now - but these deals Sutter has pulled off recently smack of desperation, from a GM who knows his job may be on the line. I think these are trades that could really come back to hurt the Flames in the near future, especially if there's no Cup run this spring.

What makes anyone think Kotalik can perform better under Brent Sutter than he has with Tortorella? And Higgins has had two incredibly terrible years. Flames got worse, and softer, with this deal, imo.

It absolutely smacks of desperation, and I don't understand it. 3 weeks ago the Flames were 3rd in the West. They fell off the map because they couldn't score but these things go in cycles and they were still in the playoffs even after losing 11 of 13. They probably outplayed 3/4 of those teams (I think this stems from the 9-1 asskicking they took from the Sharks - who they usually play very tough).

The only deals that made sense to me was Phaneuf and assets for Kovulchuk OR Phaneuf, Olli, Irving, and assets for Vinny.

Now they have nothing to deal and no way are they a cup contender with all the spare parts they just picked up.

Maybe it is time for Sutter to go? It sounds strange because the Flames were a fuking wasteland before he got there, and although they have made the playoffs every year he's been here, it might be time for a new direction.

Hard to picture Hotchkiss firing Sutter though....

[Sam1410]

1 more thing - a buddy of mine back home reminded me that Phaneuf has a no-trade clause that kicks in this July.

That HAS to be a big factor in moving him right? They must have (finally) realized that you can't have almost $24 million tied up in 3 defenseman and a goalie when the cap might come down next year and he was the one playing the worst (actually Bouwmeester has been worse but your not trading him after only half a season).

The Flames had one of the highest %'s of cap space tied up on the blueline and in net of any team in the NHL. Gee, I wonder if that explains why they have one of the worst offenses in the league.

[Janssen25]

I find it hilarious how Sather always seems to have to make desperation deals to make up for the terrible signings he made in the previous off season. Sather is lost.

[bigjack]

From a Ranger standpoint, Jokinen is an upgrade over Higgins who really gagged in NY and sucked. The other guy had a slapshot and not much else and became a dog rather quickly!
My issue with Prust is they already have Voros who plays hard when he plays and Brashear so where is this kid gonna play?
The Rangers need to develop some gritty guys like Prust, but with skills like Avery and get meaner as a team. A few individuals won't do it for them.
It should be interesting to see what Torts does with Brashear, Voros, and Prust. Maybe they try moving Voros who makes around 1 million bucks!

[rondo]

There is not enough room for Prust, Brasherar and Voros...Prust and Voros are somewhat simiar in size with Prust being a better fighter..I have'nt seen enought of Prust to say he is a better player but I think he (Prust) brings a little more to the table than Voros...neither are HW so where does this leave Brashear? Someone is gone and it looks to be Voros but who knows with Sather.

[HordiBrusk29]

Jokinen hasn't been the same player since leaving Florida. That being said, I'd still rather have him over Higgins and Kotalik. Getting Prust as well is just icing on the cake for the Rangers, IMO. They win this trade easily.