textile
Go Back   hockeyfights.com forums > NHL Forums > NHL Chat

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 11:00 PM
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by BROKEN*ORBITAL View Post
One is relevant, the other isn't.
My comment was actually more of a dig at you demanding "fair" union wages, while any Walmart worker could fill your shoes with minimal training.

Can't fill the NHL's shoes (or skates) with walmart workers, but thanks for making my point.

**EDIT-Why dont you read everything I posted that you didnt quote. Those are my actual points.

Last edited by BruinsBeatdown; 11-26-2012 at 11:16 PM.
Advertisement
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 11:19 PM
BROKEN*ORBITAL's Avatar
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: I live in a van down by the river
Posts: 12,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinsBeatdown View Post
My comment was actually more of a dig at you demanding "fair" union wages, while any Walmart worker could fill your shoes with minimal training.

Can't fill the NHL's shoes (or skates) with walmart workers, but thanks for making my point.
No matter their level of skill, we still need Walmart workers. Real world work needs doing. Under no circumstances do we need hockey players. Their actual value to society is zero.

But thanks for ignoring my point.
__________________
Eeeeehhhhhh yyyyoooouuuuu gggggguuuuuyyyyyyssssss!

- Sloth
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 11:38 PM
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by BROKEN*ORBITAL View Post
No matter their level of skill, we still need Walmart workers. Real world work needs doing. Under no circumstances do we need hockey players. Their actual value to society is zero.

But thanks for ignoring my point.
This was a dig at Big Violence's post about Unions. I will drop it because this isn't the forum for it. I posted about supply and demand, which has everything to do with the lockout and the unions. While we might not NEED hockey players, we DEMAND the best hockey players, which is evident how they all got scooped up by other teams...overseas Also, the trickle down effect of the NHL lockout goes all the way from the hotdog guy to walmart shirt sales. So actual value is much more than you stated (zero). Billions lost this year.

Again my point to my original comment was about unions and that a walmat worker can be trained to be a steel worker, but not a NHL player. Hence the supply of UNION steel workers superseded the demand, which in return inflates the actual value of that worker costing us all. While there are only a select amount of people qualified to work in the NHL which allows them to collectively arbitrate their salary.

Its basic economics. Supply and demand. You must have taken one too many to the orbital.

Last edited by BruinsBeatdown; 11-26-2012 at 11:50 PM.
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 12:06 AM
Phila26Flyers's Avatar
Content Team
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 14,802
BruinsBeatoff, you need to look up the meaning of "supply and demand." That concept has absolutely nothing to with the NHL lockout. The NHL lockout is about who gets which portion of the pie.

Your view on the steel mill union in relation to the NHL is ignorant, to say the least. B*O schooled you quite succinctly on that point. You can't just hire teenage pimple fukkface who chases bitches on his iPhone all day to work at the steel mill because he needs a summer job. That's skilled labor that's a necessity for the survival of our society. Those workers are given the right to unionize to secure long-term health and pension benefits for themselves so breaking their backs all day might be worth it in the end. Take away some of those skilled workers, and let's see what happens to the production and cost of steel. Take away the NHL for (another) year, and let's see what happens.

Oh, nothing. Life goes on.
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 12:16 AM
Jack Schitt's Avatar
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by leon phelps View Post
I am guessing the thousands of hours practicing and playing up until they finally get a professional contract. Probably 1/100000 get paid. Since the price of ice time is free in your head, so must be sticks, transportation (since their parents pay it), the doctor co-pays when they get hurt (unless they are all knowing and all invincible like you), and the chance of diminished future earnings since plenty of people get hurt for the rest of their life.

So the owners should reimburse them for playing a GAME as a kid?

Diminished future earnings?The average NHL salary is more per year than most make in a lifetime.

Quote:
I am sure there are plenty of ex-pros that are spoon fed or live with daily health issues (but that is not a risk to you).
Tell me - since you are so sure- about the long list of players who are "spoon fed".


Tell me about how a players daily health issues are any different from those of a construction worker, truck driver, warehouse worker, fisherman, farmer etc... who make a fraction of what they do , and don't recieve the best health care money can buy.

Nobody forced them to become pro hockey players. They are compensated very well for what they do. They get paid whether they live up to expectations or not.

Quote:
I hope when you laugh at the last comment, your head is not in the lap of an owner. He would not appreciate it.

As the NHLPA says, open the books and well see exactly how much the owners are losing.

Yeah, you're a real rebel. The "man" is keeping those poor pampered millionaires down.

The NHL is a business. A business exists to make money. That is the primary function. If the owners put up all the capital, is it wrong for them to want to see a return on their substantial investment? If the players don't want to go along with the terms, they are free to seek other employment. It's really that simple.

Don't misconstrue my comments as being solely pro-owner and anti-player. IMO there is plenty of blame to spread around. It's millionaires arguing with billionaires and the average Joe suffers.
__________________
_____________________________________________
I don't argue, I just explain why you're wrong.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jack Schitt For This Useful Post:
cookie monster (11-27-2012), Phila26Flyers (11-27-2012)
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 12:19 AM
Phila26Flyers's Avatar
Content Team
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 14,802
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinsBeatdown View Post
Again my point to my original comment was about unions and that a walmat worker can be trained to be a steel worker, but not a NHL player. Hence the supply of UNION steel workers superseded the demand, which in return inflates the actual value of that worker costing us all. While there are only a select amount of people qualified to work in the NHL which allows them to collectively arbitrate their salary.

Its basic economics. Supply and demand. You must have taken one too many to the orbital.
Supply and demand is the cost of goods relative to demand of the consumer. It doesn't work when you're talking about athletes because you're talking about multi-billion dollar industries. A better example would be the cost of ticket prices do to fanbase demand. The analogy about the players and Walmart workers or whatever does not work.

I would LOVE to see the lazy 17 year olds that slug around Walmart pick up a hardhat and work 8-10 hours a day doing manual labor.

Steel workers are unionized BECAUSE they'd be making as much as Walmart employees otherwise. You tell me which job requires more hard work and sweat. Are they both worth $8/hour? My little brother makes about $10/hour at Best Buy. Is selling a few televisions a day worth the same wage as laboring in a steel mill 40-50 hours a week?

Do you know how unions work? Are you aware that the workers pay union dues to keep the union going? That's not your money. Are you aware that union workers contribute a certain amount to their health care and pensions, like most full-time employees, as outlined by their contract? That's not your money. Are you aware that when unions strike for higher wages, they are battling against their company? If they win, and secure higher wages...that's not your money. Tell me more about how you and I are paying for unions to exist. If you are, then you must be in one.

If you cite the cost of steel goods as evidence you are paying for unions, then you're even more ignorant than I thought. The price of steel would increase without unionized workers. No steel workers union = less skilled steel workers = lower production = higher cost.

And this still has nothing to do with what's going on in the NHL.

Last edited by Phila26Flyers; 11-27-2012 at 12:22 AM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Phila26Flyers For This Useful Post:
JKidd (11-27-2012)
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 12:25 AM
Phila26Flyers's Avatar
Content Team
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 14,802
It appears leon felch and BruinsBeatoff weren't paying attention in economics class!
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 08:37 AM
fansince65's Avatar
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a Hockey Rink
Posts: 11,009
So now they agree on a third party , My question is "WHY THE HE!! BRING IN A THIRD PARTY IF HIS DECISION"S AND RECOMENDATIONS ARE NOT GOING TO BE BINDING ????" !!

All that does is make both parties look more stupid than they already are ..
__________________
Hockey Without Fights Is Like A "Honeymoon Without Sex" ...

George Gross : At L.A. Kings/Toronto Game In 1970 ...
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 08:56 AM
JKidd's Avatar
Clever admin title
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BC, MN
Posts: 31,958
It's really just to get a "fresh" take on things, that's all.

Unfortunately, the real stupid thing is that the main parties are so enamored with themselves and so ego driven there is no way they're going to listen to a "neutral" 3rd party and come off their high perch to get a deal done. To them, it's "losing" as opposed to "negotiating" and neither Fehr nor Bettman are willing to do that.

I really hope I'm wrong though. Downtown St Paul is essentially a wasteland without hockey, and a lot of businesses have laid off countless staff members while this drags on (a few happen to be very good friends).
__________________
@Jkidd2624
Favorite in game audio
Boxing Central
MN Wild Team Forum
RIP Bob "Probie" Probert - 7/5/2010
RIP Derek "Boogie Man" Boogaard - 5/13/2011
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:13 AM
Jack Schitt's Avatar
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKidd View Post
It's really just to get a "fresh" take on things, that's all.

Unfortunately, the real stupid thing is that the main parties are so enamored with themselves and so ego driven there is no way they're going to listen to a "neutral" 3rd party and come off their high perch to get a deal done. To them, it's "losing" as opposed to "negotiating" and neither Fehr nor Bettman are willing to do that.

I really hope I'm wrong though. Downtown St Paul is essentially a wasteland without hockey, and a lot of businesses have laid off countless staff members while this drags on (a few happen to be very good friends).
As dead as St. Paul is.... downtown Buffalo probably makes it look like a thriving metropolis. Without the Sabres, during the week there is literally nothing going on down there.

I truly believe that Buttman and Fear, along with their massive egos, are the two biggest problems. Remove them and their crews and this could probably be settled sooner than later.

How is it that Bettman still keeps his job with his atrocious record. It baffles me.
__________________
_____________________________________________
I don't argue, I just explain why you're wrong.
  #41 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:39 AM
mikebflorida's Avatar
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Clearwater, Fl
Posts: 6,930
This is so stupid.
__________________
Elusive Member of The 6,000 Post Club!
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:41 AM
cookie monster's Avatar
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,963
One of my brothers best friends works for the Blue Jackets front office. She, as allot of employees, hasn't been working because of the lock out.

Last night she told my brother she got a call from her supervisor who told her that she should expect to be back to work right after Christmas, as the team is expecting to be playing games by mid January.

This is not some claim, written in stone, so please don't blast me of it doesn't happen, but I hope its true.
__________________
Im the guy doing my job....You must be the other guy. President Barrack Obama to Rep John Boehner
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:52 AM
Fireball_IV's Avatar
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phila26Flyers View Post
Supply and demand is the cost of goods relative to demand of the consumer. It doesn't work when you're talking about athletes because you're talking about multi-billion dollar industries. A better example would be the cost of ticket prices do to fanbase demand. The analogy about the players and Walmart workers or whatever does not work.

I would LOVE to see the lazy 17 year olds that slug around Walmart pick up a hardhat and work 8-10 hours a day doing manual labor.

Steel workers are unionized BECAUSE they'd be making as much as Walmart employees otherwise. You tell me which job requires more hard work and sweat. Are they both worth $8/hour? My little brother makes about $10/hour at Best Buy. Is selling a few televisions a day worth the same wage as laboring in a steel mill 40-50 hours a week?

Do you know how unions work? Are you aware that the workers pay union dues to keep the union going? That's not your money. Are you aware that union workers contribute a certain amount to their health care and pensions, like most full-time employees, as outlined by their contract? That's not your money. Are you aware that when unions strike for higher wages, they are battling against their company? If they win, and secure higher wages...that's not your money. Tell me more about how you and I are paying for unions to exist. If you are, then you must be in one.

If you cite the cost of steel goods as evidence you are paying for unions, then you're even more ignorant than I thought. The price of steel would increase without unionized workers. No steel workers union = less skilled steel workers = lower production = higher cost.

And this still has nothing to do with what's going on in the NHL.
I deal with unions day in and day out.
What you say is true, however as much as there are good guys, there are just as many bad guys that DO NOT deserve to have jobs.

They don't give a flying ****, they sit in thier trucks idling for 10 hours a day, getting paid. You can't ****ing touch them because of the union BA's. Guys that tell you that you need to respect them, and use them for thier knowledge.

The same guy then sits around for hours plalying stupid and that he doesn't know what he's supposed to do because no one told him... yet he does it all day every day. I've run into as much (if not more) bad with unions that good. For every one that appreciates and respects it, there are a bunch of idiots who don't deserve jobs, don't work hard and just get by on the fact that no one can get rid of them...
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:10 AM
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Schitt View Post
As dead as St. Paul is.... downtown Buffalo probably makes it look like a thriving metropolis. Without the Sabres, during the week there is literally nothing going on down there.

I truly believe that Buttman and Fear, along with their massive egos, are the two biggest problems. Remove them and their crews and this could probably be settled sooner than later.

How is it that Bettman still keeps his job with his atrocious record. It baffles me.
at least we got Bills! 13 years playoff drought! woo hoo!
  #45 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:33 AM
Jack Schitt's Avatar
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikebflorida View Post
This is so stupid.
Thanks for the input, Mike.
__________________
_____________________________________________
I don't argue, I just explain why you're wrong.
Closed Thread

Tags
all-star game, cancel, games, nhl, regular season

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:00 AM.