Hockey Hall of Fame Class of 2012

[JKidd]

Originally Posted by V12_Bi-Turbo

no debate about him winning **** and not belonging into hockey hall of fame

So a guy that scores 700 goals in a career, but plays on terrible teams his entire career doesn't get into the HOF by your standards?

[V12_Bi-Turbo]

Originally Posted by jkidd

So a guy that scores 700 goals in a career, but plays on terrible teams his entire career doesn't get into the HOF by your standards?

My standards: guy must collect bunch of points but ALSO win something big (cup, olympic games) Then feel free to put him into HOF. By Your standards we can put there everyone who scored 700 points like Bure. Hell by your standards lets put there even his brother Valeri!

BTW from a veteran poster of these boards I would expect no nonesense in your posts. 6 people were able to score 700 and more goals alltime as you should know. 700 goals on a ****ty team? Well that would be fourteen 50 goal seasons on a ****ty team! Ahahahah LOL

[Sputnik]

Originally Posted by V12_Bi-Turbo

My standards: guy must collect bunch of points but ALSO win something big (cup, olympic games) Then feel free to put him into HOF. By Your standards we can put there everyone who scored 700 points like Bure. Hell by your standards lets put there even his brother Valeri!

You're full of ****. Do you realize there is more to hockey than numbers and hardware? (well Bure has plenty of trophies btw...)
Do you realize that Neely, which also didn't win anything, set the role of the true "power forward", Bure is with Bossy the "purest goal scorer" in NHL history and was lights out even during the dead-puck era? Not to mention Oates passing abilties which were second only to Gretzky.

I'd take those three over gold medal winner Mats Sundin any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[V12_Bi-Turbo]

Originally Posted by Sputnik

You're full of ****. Do you realize there is more to hockey than numbers and hardware? (well Bure has plenty of trophies btw...)
Do you realize that Neely, which also didn't win anything, set the role of the true "power forward", Bure is with Bossy the "purest goal scorer" in NHL history and was lights out even during the dead-puck era? Not to mention Oates passing abilties which were second only to Gretzky.

I'd take those three over gold medal winner Mats Sundin any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

The career effort must be measured somehow. Numbers and hardware. Thats how you fuking measure it. Pavel Bure in HOF next to the Sakics?

[JKidd]

Originally Posted by V12_Bi-Turbo

My standards: guy must collect bunch of points but ALSO win something big (cup, olympic games) Then feel free to put him into HOF. By Your standards we can put there everyone who scored 700 points like Bure. Hell by your standards lets put there even his brother Valeri!

BTW from a veteran poster of these boards I would expect no nonesense in your posts. 6 people were able to score 700 and more goals alltime as you should know. 700 goals on a ****ty team? Well that would be fourteen 50 goal seasons on a ****ty team! Ahahahah LOL

So what about Dino Ciccarelli? Only 16 guys with more goals in the history of the game, but no hardware to speak of.

I haven't put up my standards. The only thing you can tell about my standards is that I wanted Shanny and Pat Burns in the hall. Two all time greats.

And what's your definition of "hardware?" Individual trophies? Only golds or the cup?

[V12_Bi-Turbo]

Originally Posted by jkidd

So what about Dino Ciccarelli? Only 16 guys with more goals in the history of the game, but no hardware to speak of.

I haven't put up my standards. The only thing you can tell about my standards is that I wanted Shanny and Pat Burns in the hall. Two all time greats.

And what's your definition of "hardware?" Individual trophies? Only golds or the cup?

Stanley cup and Olympic gold - two most important trophies in the hockey World. I respect your opinion but if I am introducing people to HOF I would not let enter someone who did not win at least on of these trophies.

You actually have a good point with players like Dino, who belongs there because of collecting extreme number of goals. Yes I would have no problem with making an exception here and there and introduce a player who did not won Cup or Olympic gold but because of outstanding numbers he achieved. But pile of players collected same numbers as Bure so he doesnt belong in there. Only 16 players scored more goals than Dino so Yes put him in.

I would let Bure in with no Cup and no olympic gold in case he would have a LIST of NHL trophies but one Calder and two Richards is nothing what knocks me on my ass

Milan Hejduk has same numbers as Bure PLUS he won Cup PLUS he won Olympics. He also has Morris Richards trophy. When he retires I want to see him in

[Plateworker]

Originally Posted by V12_Bi-Turbo

Stanley cup and Olympic gold - two most important trophies in the hockey World. I respect your opinion but if I am introducing people to HOF I would not let enter someone who did not win at least on of these trophies.

You actually have a good point with players like Dino, who belongs there because of collecting extreme number of goals. Yes I would have no problem with making an exception here and there and introduce a player who did not won Cup or Olympic gold but because of outstanding numbers he achieved. But pile of players collected same numbers as Bure so he doesnt belong in there. Only 16 players scored more goals than Dino so Yes put him in.

I would let Bure in with no Cup and no olympic gold in case he would have a LIST of NHL trophies but one Calder and two Richards is nothing what knocks me on my ass

Milan Hejduk has same numbers as Bure PLUS he won Cup PLUS he won Olympics. He also has Morris Richards trophy. When he retires I want to see him in

Wow at least I know you are clueless now... you are actually saying Hejduk and Bure are comparable....lol...now I have heard everything.

Just going on numbers alone Where is Hedjuks 5 50+ goal seasons, where is Hedjuks 2 60+ goal season oh s*it no where. Bure has almost as many points in the playoffs as Hedjuk with half the games. Hedjuk 112 games with 34 goals and 76 points, Bure 70 points in 64 games with 35 goals...thats comparable

Hedjuk 991 games 371 g 423 A and 794 pts for a GREAT teams
Bure 702 games 437 G 342A and 779 pts for decent teams

So Hedjuk played 289 games 3+ full seasons more than Bure but only managed 15 more points.....

Please stop making yourself look like an idiot that has no idea what he is talking about. And you still did not answer my question about guys like Marino, Sanders, Banks and so who won nothing but Were clearly some of the BEST PLAYERS EVER....Their is no discussion as you are wrong in every aspect... And Hedjuk goes no where near the Hall

[fcm]

The problem isn't really about Pavel Bure being a HOFamer.

It's more about HIM being a Hall of Famer and guys like Pat Burns or Brendan Shanahan being forgotten.

[V12_Bi-Turbo]

Originally Posted by Plateworker

Wow at least I know you are clueless now... you are actually saying Hejduk and Bure are comparable....lol...now I have heard everything.

Just going on numbers alone Where is Hedjuks 5 50+ goal seasons, where is Hedjuks 2 60+ goal season oh s*it no where. Bure has almost as many points in the playoffs as Hedjuk with half the games. Hedjuk 112 games with 34 goals and 76 points, Bure 70 points in 64 games with 35 goals...thats comparable

Hedjuk 991 games 371 g 423 A and 794 pts for a GREAT teams
Bure 702 games 437 G 342A and 779 pts for decent teams

So Hedjuk played 289 games 3+ full seasons more than Bure but only managed 15 more points.....

Please stop making yourself look like an idiot that has no idea what he is talking about. And you still did not answer my question about guys like Marino, Sanders, Banks and so who won nothing but Were clearly some of the BEST PLAYERS EVER....Their is no discussion as you are wrong in every aspect... And Hedjuk goes no where near the Hall

I am sure he will end up sitting in the corner and crying for not being introduced. Guy won almost everything under sun. What Bure won. Wait, let me see, mmhmhmm...mmm... oh.. meh.

Lets let ´em have it, they can throw in there whoever they want. I just cant imagine myself visiting the HOF, looking at Roy´s pads and Sakic´s sticks with all those numbers and cups and suddenly getting to Bure´s spot and chuckling. At that point I will recall plateworker poster from HF.com and his remarks about Pavel putting up 5 50 goal season and that being reason for Bure being there

[Shoryuken]

Originally Posted by Plateworker

Wow at least I know you are clueless now... you are actually saying Hejduk and Bure are comparable....lol...now I have heard everything.

Just going on numbers alone Where is Hedjuks 5 50+ goal seasons, where is Hedjuks 2 60+ goal season oh s*it no where. Bure has almost as many points in the playoffs as Hedjuk with half the games. Hedjuk 112 games with 34 goals and 76 points, Bure 70 points in 64 games with 35 goals...thats comparable

Hedjuk 991 games 371 g 423 A and 794 pts for a GREAT teams
Bure 702 games 437 G 342A and 779 pts for decent teams

So Hedjuk played 289 games 3+ full seasons more than Bure but only managed 15 more points.....

Please stop making yourself look like an idiot that has no idea what he is talking about. And you still did not answer my question about guys like Marino, Sanders, Banks and so who won nothing but Were clearly some of the BEST PLAYERS EVER....Their is no discussion as you are wrong in every aspect... And Hedjuk goes no where near the Hall

Some valid points, but I'd say that Bure's numbers will naturally be higher as he started his career in an era which was a lot more free-scoring, before goalies became huge and all the teams started having their skaters playing defensive hockey? I'm not saying that Hedjuk deserves to be in the HoF, but more pointing out that numbers don't necessarily tell the whole tale..

The omission of Pat Burns is outright wrong, is Shanahan being held back due to his work for the NHL - dependent on what he acheives there depends on which area of the Hall he ends up in? His playing career may be over, his hockey career isn't.

[mikebflorida]

Dave Andreychuk's resume-

5th most games played in NHL history with 1639.
14th most goals scored in NHL history with 640.
Tied with Denis Savard for 27th in league history with 1,338 points.
Holds the record for most NHL career power-play goals with 274.
1991–92 NHL power-play goals leader with 28.
1992–93 NHL power-play goals leader with 32.
Oldest player to make Stanley Cup Finals debut: 40 years, 7 months (May 25, 2004).
Played in NHL All-Star Game in 1990 and 1994.
Stanley Cup champion — 2004


Makes Bure look pedestrian and while I think Bure was a really good player and is probably worthy of being in the hall, Andy has been passed over yet again for Oates, Sundin, and Bure.

Pat Burns was a very abrasive guy, he must have pissed off some voters for the hall, that's the only reason I can think of that he's not there yet, he was a hell of a winning coach.

[Costanza]

Good thing Ray Bourque finished his career in Colorado.

[Plateworker]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

Dave Andreychuk's resume-

5th most games played in NHL history with 1639.
14th most goals scored in NHL history with 640.
Tied with Denis Savard for 27th in league history with 1,338 points.
Holds the record for most NHL career power-play goals with 274.
1991–92 NHL power-play goals leader with 28.
1992–93 NHL power-play goals leader with 32.
Oldest player to make Stanley Cup Finals debut: 40 years, 7 months (May 25, 2004).
Played in NHL All-Star Game in 1990 and 1994.
Stanley Cup champion — 2004




Makes Bure look pedestrian and while I think Bure was a really good player and is probably worthy of being in the hall, Andy has been passed over yet again for Oates, Sundin, and Bure.

Pat Burns was a very abrasive guy, he must have pissed off some voters for the hall, that's the only reason I can think of that he's not there yet, he was a hell of a winning coach.

Good call with Andreychuk..certainly deserving. Yeah thinking the same thing with Pat

[Plateworker]

Originally Posted by V12_Bi-Turbo

I am sure he will end up sitting in the corner and crying for not being introduced. Guy won almost everything under sun. What Bure won. Wait, let me see, mmhmhmm...mmm... oh.. meh.

Lets let ´em have it, they can throw in there whoever they want. I just cant imagine myself visiting the HOF, looking at Roy´s pads and Sakic´s sticks with all those numbers and cups and suddenly getting to Bure´s spot and chuckling. At that point I will recall plateworker poster from HF.com and his remarks about Pavel putting up 5 50 goal season and that being reason for Bure being there

So very obvious that you have never watched Bure play...I am pretty sure not a Hockey expert around would agree with you assessment of Bure. I am sure you can name hundreds of guys who have 5 50+ goals seasons with 2 60+ thrown in there...And Winning doesn't make a career just adds the finishing touches. If your a great player it enhances you, if your not a great player, say just average then it casts you in a positive light but will not help you get in the hall with out the numbers required. You can be the greatest playoff player ever and have a sh*tty career...guess what your not going anywhere near the hall. Hey sh*t lets put Robert Horry and Derek fisher in the hall because they were clutch in the playoffs and have what 11-12 championships between them.....ummm no not going anywhere near the Hall buddy...and you still did not answer the question about those other HOF's that never won anything...

[Plateworker]

Originally Posted by Shoryuken

Some valid points, but I'd say that Bure's numbers will naturally be higher as he started his career in an era which was a lot more free-scoring, before goalies became huge and all the teams started having their skaters playing defensive hockey? I'm not saying that Hedjuk deserves to be in the HoF, but more pointing out that numbers don't necessarily tell the whole tale..

The omission of Pat Burns is outright wrong, is Shanahan being held back due to his work for the NHL - dependent on what he acheives there depends on which area of the Hall he ends up in? His playing career may be over, his hockey career isn't.

Ummm not really Bure started in 91-92 only 3 years before the trap came about. While he scored 60 goals 2x during that time he also scored 51 + 3 times right smack in the middle of the Dman/trap era so your point does not ring true

51 in 97-98
58 in 99-00
59 in 00-01

The trap never really affected his goal scoring ability. You look when he has played a full season and his point totals are excellent before or after the guy could score with the best of them