The heavyweight numbers problem out west

[Stevens Lindros]

With Darcy Hordichuk back in the A for the first time in 10 years and Matt Kassian likely to be claimed out east if anywhere it is unbelievable the numbers situation we have out west.

It has not been this bad out west in the modern era and ironically the east has stabilized somewhat this year. Going back to Hordi I'm surprised I didn't see him challenge Bordeleau in his only of 4 games this year with someone to fight, maybe he did and we didn't see it but even if Bordeleau is a better player neither has any real choice out west. If Hordi didn't challenge him I can't see why, it's not like Kruger was living up to his word to play Hordchuk more, in fact he played him fewer games and fewer minutes than Remmey did, roughly half as an average and twice under 1:00 in 4 games. A 2 minute man, scratched against anyone left but Bordy who he unwisely did not try to fight to show why he was signed. Hopefully we see him again next year, but unlikely on a 1-way or out west.

Here's the west as it stands unless Kassian is picked up out west and plays a game:

Super heavyweights:
Patrick Bordeleau
Brian McGrattan (hasn't played since first two games)

Heavyweights that will fight anyone, the always-willing:
Jared Boll

Sometimes willing/Light heavies:
Brad Staubitz
Mike Rupp
Zenon Konopka
Brandon Bollig (could fit above category instead)
Paul Bissonnette (could be above category instead as well)
Sheldon Brookbank (at least when with Anaheim)
Ryan Reaves

Less willing light heavies:
Ben Eager
Tim Jackman
Zack Kassian (though a very good player, too good to fight 4th liners regularly)
Jamal Mayers
Dan Carcillo (he's out for the year anyway isn't he?)

Everyone else:
The Eric Nystrom's, Dorsett's, Clowe's, Bieksa's, Weise's, Volpatti's, Nolan's, Clifford's, Bryan Bickelk's, etc.

There's a number you can count on one hand for several guys to fight out here this year. Boll's okay in his role because of his smaller size, respect he's gained NHL-wide, and playing ability, but guys like McGrattan and even Bollig, Bissonnette, and Bordeleau are hanging by a thread.

[Boston Garden]

This has been overblown IMO, the West still has some very willing fighters. Maybe not the caliber that some of the Eastern teams can trot out there on a given night. However, it seems like a good chunk of the East firepower either sits in the press box, or play occasionally at best anyways. (Shelley,Boulton) or they have seemingly lost the passion to fight consistently..or due to coaching (Westgarth,Asham,Janssen (sent to minors) It's more of a league problem than an East or West problem to me.

I haven't done the math, but I'd bet the number of fights in the East and West aren't that far off.

[Stevens Lindros]

Originally Posted by Boston Garden

This has been overblown IMO, the West still has some very willing fighters. Maybe not the caliber that some of the Eastern teams can trot out there on a given night. However, it seems like a good chunk of the East firepower either sits in the press box, or play occasionally at best anyways. (Shelley,Boulton) or they have seemingly lost the passion to fight consistently..or due to coaching (Westgarth,Asham,Janssen (sent to minors) It's more of a league problem than an East or West problem to me.

I haven't done the math, but I'd bet the number of fights in the East and West aren't that far off.

I listed McGrattan and he's stuck in the pressbox so I think this is fair. Also not interested in non-heavy fight totals for this exercise


Superheavyweights only out east:
John Scott
Colton Orr
George Parros

Talking heavyweights only the east has:
Matt Carkner
Eric Boulton
Shawn Thornton
Milan Lucic (when he does fight)
Krys Barch
Kevin Westgarth
Jody Shelley
Frazer McLaren
Deryk Engelland

Might be forgetting some


Not even counting the Erskine's, Neil's I counted out west or the Crombeen's Asham's etc.

Maybe Matt Kassian as well with the heavy's but has to be claimed first.

So no, the west and east aren't even close this year.If I list every Neil or Erskine like I did out west the list is much longer, as it will be if Kassian is claimed out east.

[Ciccarelli]

Don't want to ruin the thread but it's interesting that Milan Lucic should fight HW's and Zack Kassian is to good as a player to fight 4th liners...

[brymaster1]

Five of the top ten teams in terms of total fights, are from the west. Sure the west's heavyweights are few and far between, but the west is just as game as the east when it comes to fighting.

[rondo]

It's really pretty simple. All of the guys that were in the west , either signed or asked to be traded to the east so they could avoid the reigning champ Brian McGrattan

[Flyers2001]

Looking at it fast it looks like the east has 115 fighting majors and the west 109. It is a lot closer than it was a couple weeks ago.

[Stevens Lindros]

Originally Posted by Ciccarelli

Don't want to ruin the thread but it's interesting that Milan Lucic should fight HW's and Zack Kassian is to good as a player to fight 4th liners...

I didn't say he should. I said he's a legit heavyweight when he does. Kassian still has a ways to go IF he does decided to fight heavys. Bruins fans always pretend like they're being persecuted, honestly nobody cares.

[Stevens Lindros]

Originally Posted by brymaster1

Five of the top ten teams in terms of total fights, are from the west. Sure the west's heavyweights are few and far between, but the west is just as game as the east when it comes to fighting.

Not talking about non-heavyweight fights though... What part of this don't people get?!!

[BOSTONMASSACRE]

Originally Posted by Stevens Lindros

With Darcy Hordichuk back in the A for the first time in 10 years and Matt Kassian likely to be claimed out east if anywhere it is unbelievable the numbers situation we have out west.

It has not been this bad out west in the modern era and ironically the east has stabilized somewhat this year. Going back to Hordi I'm surprised I didn't see him challenge Bordeleau in his only of 4 games this year with someone to fight, maybe he did and we didn't see it but even if Bordeleau is a better player neither has any real choice out west. If Hordi didn't challenge him I can't see why, it's not like Kruger was living up to his word to play Hordchuk more, in fact he played him fewer games and fewer minutes than Remmey did, roughly half as an average and twice under 1:00 in 4 games. A 2 minute man, scratched against anyone left but Bordy who he unwisely did not try to fight to show why he was signed. Hopefully we see him again next year, but unlikely on a 1-way or out west.

Here's the west as it stands unless Kassian is picked up out west and plays a game:

Super heavyweights:
Patrick Bordeleau
Brian McGrattan (hasn't played since first two games)

Heavyweights that will fight anyone, the always-willing:
Jared Boll

Sometimes willing/Light heavies:
Brad Staubitz
Mike Rupp
Zenon Konopka
Brandon Bollig (could fit above category instead)
Paul Bissonnette (could be above category instead as well)
Sheldon Brookbank (at least when with Anaheim)
Ryan Reaves

Less willing light heavies:
Ben Eager
Tim Jackman
Zack Kassian (though a very good player, too good to fight 4th liners regularly)
Jamal Mayers
Dan Carcillo (he's out for the year anyway isn't he?)

Everyone else:
The Eric Nystrom's, Dorsett's, Clowe's, Bieksa's, Weise's, Volpatti's, Nolan's, Clifford's, Bryan Bickelk's, etc.

There's a number you can count on one hand for several guys to fight out here this year. Boll's okay in his role because of his smaller size, respect he's gained NHL-wide, and playing ability, but guys like McGrattan and even Bollig, Bissonnette, and Bordeleau are hanging by a thread.

Good post.

[MattBurger]

Originally Posted by Stevens Lindros

Not talking about non-heavyweight fights though... What part of this don't people get?!!

It's really not that big of a deal. As a matter of fact, Light-Heavyweight and Middleweight bouts are often far more entertaining then Heavyweight fights.

And in this day and age, I'll take any type of fight, doesn't matter who's involved.

[mikebflorida]

This isn't a heavyweight laden NHL anymore, teams want guys like Prust or Rinaldo that hit a lot, can kill penalties, and fight once in a while.

What does George Parros offer besides an occasional "hey you wanna go, ok good luck" fight. John Scott offers even less but they are nuclear missiles, there to keep other teams honest.

If Brian Mcgrattan suits up against the Red Wings, what's he gonna do? Sit on the bench for 58 minutes and not even break a sweat so he's scratched 90% of the time.

It's frustrating but that's the NHL these days. Long gone are the 80's and 90's when teams had 2-3 heavyweights and 2-3 middleweights along with some goalies who did more fighting than many players today.

A team like Toronto is an exception to the rule and it proves that even though you may not win every game or even make the playoffs, fans will LOVE a tough team no matter what, they will feel like they got their money's worth. I'm sure Leaf fans would rather win a cup but a team like they have now is much more exciting to watch than they have been since Doug Gilmour and Wendel Clark skated for them.

Times have changed but there are still some positives.

[Stevens Lindros]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

A team like Toronto is an exception to the rule and it proves that even though you may not win every game or even make the playoffs, fans will LOVE a tough team no matter what, they will feel like they got their money's worth. I'm sure Leaf fans would rather win a cup but a team like they have now is much more exciting to watch than they have been since Doug Gilmour and Wendel Clark skated for them.

Times have changed but there are still some positives.

Mostly in the east though.... that's all I'm saying.

[Treehugger]

Originally Posted by mikebflorida

This isn't a heavyweight laden NHL anymore, teams want guys like Prust or Rinaldo that hit a lot, can kill penalties, and fight once in a while.

What does George Parros offer besides an occasional "hey you wanna go, ok good luck" fight. John Scott offers even less but they are nuclear missiles, there to keep other teams honest.

If Brian Mcgrattan suits up against the Red Wings, what's he gonna do? Sit on the bench for 58 minutes and not even break a sweat so he's scratched 90% of the time.It's frustrating but that's the NHL these days. Long gone are the 80's and 90's when teams had 2-3 heavyweights and 2-3 middleweights along with some goalies who did more fighting than many players today.

A team like Toronto is an exception to the rule and it proves that even though you may not win every game or even make the playoffs, fans will LOVE a tough team no matter what, they will feel like they got their money's worth. I'm sure Leaf fans would rather win a cup but a team like they have now is much more exciting to watch than they have been since Doug Gilmour and Wendel Clark skated for them.

Times have changed but there are still some positives.

he could beat up his lil buddy and buy him an iced tea after the game.

[Stevens Lindros]

Originally Posted by Treehugger

he could beat up his lil buddy and buy him an iced tea after the game.

Agreed, it's doubtful but not out of the question that Tootoo would fight McGrattan once....maybe.