Originally Posted by bigjack
17 homers, 67 ribbies and .281-wow!
Piazza who was a catcher his entire career and destroyed physically was 36 homers, 113 ribbies and .308- NOW THAT IS HOF and not the Biggio crap of a good player for many years!
You can throw out numbers all you like, but without context, they lack true meaning. You cited to his 162-game averages, but failed to:
- explain that he played 20 seasons!
- explain that he LEAD OFF over half his games, and batted second in a fourth of his others (not prime RBI positions)
- adjust his stats for park effects/era
- most importantly, inform the reader that he AVERAGED 105 runs per 162, which is EXACTLY what a Hall of Fame leadoff hitter does.
Now, let's be fair and look at his per 162 averages in his "prime":
130 runs (!!!), 19 HRs, 83 RBI, 41 2B, 43 Steals, .308 avg., .887 OPS, 136 OPS+ (when adjusted for park effects/era, these stats actually go up, albeit negligibly)
Like I said, EASY Hall of Fame numbers. He also played second base, a premium defensive position.
Using the all-time greatest hitting catcher as a comparison is a faulty argument. It's the same tactic you used when arguing against Yastrzemski by comparing him to Ted Williams, arguably the greatest hitter that ever lived. It continues to be a bad argument. Regardless, in terms of their respective primes, Biggio matches up VERY well to Piazza. He was a run producing machine.
Bill James rates Biggio at roughly fifth all-time at second base, Baseball-Reference lists him as being well above a likely or average Hall of Famer, and Jay Jaffe's system ranks him as the 13th greatest second basemen of all-time, and a Hall of Fame caliber player.
Myself? While my research has hardly been exhaustive, I've been hard pressed to find more than a handful of better offensive second basemen in the history of the game.